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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:03 am 

Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:00 pm
Posts: 21
lostinlodos wrote:
ZK77: that’s all you need to do. Build your unit. Make a call. Get (and pass) an inspection. Have at it.


I just wanted to clear up the legality.

I had thought about incineration services unrelated to electronic scrap at one point. I knew medical waste was legal with the right unit. Electronic scrap had the same hazardous waste classifications. I couldn't imagine there would be much difference.

Example of an incinerator that is NOT legal to use to burn hazardous materials.
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At least the next guy that comes along that asks the question will find an answer.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:14 am 

Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:00 pm
Posts: 21
lostinlodos wrote:
The reality is nobody is going to let you walk in and see the financial breakdown day one. I’ve been scraping for more than two decades. It took about 5 years before someone told me what they sold something for upstream.

The easiest (but expensive) way to find actual values is to sign up with a large industry service like Argus to get the top level source rate and the bottom level consumer rate.
Source, as I’ve used it before above, is basically a cleaned resource that is above 95%-98% pure. Stock is anything below that down to about 50-ish percent.
Feed is anything still salvageable below 50%
And shred is waste that isn’t really worth recovery.
Shred without a metal attached is usually is used to refer to crap that is simply added in low grade steel melts. Placing the metal before it, other than steel, is more specific. Such as nickel shred which is used in electronics as the alloy for plated pins. Brass shred is melted and can be used as costume jewellery and bells, buttons etc. Aluminium shred gets turned into railings and siding. A shred melt creates a new alloy melt that won’t deter from the basic properties of the named metals. And these are just random examples.
Aluminium furniture is also made from AL shred. Etc

So take the listings from something like Argus as your target spread. Then you can take a commercial commodities index to watch the prices for the future. And adjust based on those three numbers.


This was the same answer that I got from some guys that work at a local yard, but they wouldn't tell me specifically what service. At least this confirms that the services do exist. The other service I found was The American Metals Market. Thank you.

The only other industry I have had any insight to as far as commodity markets was lumber, and that was just the information that I learned through freight sales since the office I was in shipped so much of it. I'm glad I wasn't too far off then.

These questions just boil down to time for me. I respect the amount of effort that goes into an idea, and it needs to be the right idea if I'm going to spends months of my time doing actual research. And if I decide to run with it I'm going to do as much of it I can myself before paying someone to look over my results. Things like workflow, productivity, estimating time and labor costs, learning all of the equipment, sorting & processing methods: I'm sure I can probably figure all of that out --- and pay someone to fix my mistakes.

The idea to start small with a scrap collection service makes sense. The insanity to the pipe dream vision here really boils down to who in their right mind would spend the money or even bother? We're talking about making money off of garbage... Let's call it what it is.

But where do I, or should I really try to fit in within the supply chain? That's rhetorical. (Going back to the Levels system post.)

It only makes any sense to me if I could find a reliable supplier. Even if I'm only covering my expenses and making a small profit per ton or just breaking even, the logic was, it would keep me from eating through funds to keep the business afloat. Then there's the question of purchasing from the public. And purchasing from the general public alone, I'm assuming, won't keep a yard afloat (will it?), and isn't a reliable source of income whatsoever.

I'm trying to figure out where the calculated risks come in? Can I even use the words calculated risk and insanity in the same sentence? My logic said to find a reliable supplier, roll the dice, and pray to God that the married couple down the block dispose of their old desktop sometime in the next 5 years and give it to me. Maybe they'll drop a cell phone that isn't under warranty? --- It seemed like a great idea.

I think to the average person, once "precious metals" are substituted with "trash", this sounds like a completely ignorant idea altogether.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:39 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:57 pm
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Where I differ from a few (ok most) other’s opinions is I’m not going to step on you and say you’re crazy. I’ve seen small partnerships jump in at EVERY level in the industry and make it. I just point out you’re far far more likely to fail. And the failure rate goes up as your entry level rises.

The reasons the honest YouTubers tell you they failed is easy to understand. Not enough supply, too many supplies. The further up the chain has it’s benefit in major payouts but it becomes harder and harder to get solvency up there.
The part I focus on it the reason I don’t do this. I’ve never found the right ratio. Say, how many 486s at $50 each do I need to buy to to make a profit after the expenses of materials and time.

I’ve made tiny ball mills before using a motor from a electric concrete drill, fashioning sheet steel into a drum, rigging a mount and ball bearings from case fans. Noisy as hell but works well enough.
Doesn’t last long though

I’ve played with refining on the past but it’s not for me.
I have all the patience, I can sit and happily watch water boil: one bubble, two bubbles... Time for the pasta!
Remembering to test the materials in a drum in the back yard every few days after 6 months of waiting, I don’t have the attention span needed. Squirrel.
I should really cut that dead branch off. Squirrel, I’m hungry: did I eat anything today?
Where was I?

Oh. Here. People who attempt to read my longer posts will notice I don’t even have the attention span to stay on topic after a few paragraphs.
So, back on track. If you have a plan in place. If you have done the research. Have it on paper. Know what you’re going to do... go for it.
The planing is the key. Not the method of the plan. The ones I know made it from nothing spent years planing, and lots of money on information resources. But it paid off because the had the right information at the beginning and stuck to it.

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-- my grades are my own and do not represent an offer from boardsort, nor are they guaranteed. Please keep that in mind.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:15 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:00 pm
Posts: 21
lostinlodos wrote:
Quote:
Ceramic dust is easier to work with than dust from those stupid plastic IC chips.

Only if you’re sole upstream buyer is a refinery for pm alone (who I pointed out is NOT paying for non-pm which they sell separately.
Everyone here knows I am a man of my word. and I’ll put up a certified quarter ounce bar of gold to anyone who can verifiably walk into a yard day one with a 50gal drum of milled IC powder and get anything better than ‘recovery’ rate for it.
Only guideline is the yard must be older than 6 months!

Let me be as specific as I can be based on this thread as a whole
Milling ICs, which was not where this was a few posts ago, is good
Milling boards, bad
Milling entire electronic devices =stupid

Again: I’ve been lucky enough to deal with a reputable honest refiner. Two of the largest top tier scrap companies in this country. And everything and anything below that level.
What you’re trying to do won’t work as you have it laid out. I’m trying here to guide you in what you’re trying to do so you can still have some level of chance at success
You’re obviously not one of those deluded gold gold gold fools I see over on the GRF or LoGS.


Honestly at this point I’d suggest you email me directly.



I can send you a PM if you'd like to swap information and don't mind. There are things that I definitely don't want to say on open forum for the sake of my own privacy.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:43 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:57 pm
Posts: 5799
Location: Low DOS
Feel free to email me at gmail.

_________________
-- my grades are my own and do not represent an offer from boardsort, nor are they guaranteed. Please keep that in mind.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:18 am 

Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:00 pm
Posts: 21
lostinlodos wrote:
Feel free to email me at gmail.


I'm assuming you have contact information on your Forum profile, but I can't figure out how to view other people's profiles on this board.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:13 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:03 am
Posts: 261
ZK77 wrote:
lostinlodos wrote:
Feel free to email me at gmail.


I'm assuming you have contact information on your Forum profile, but I can't figure out how to view other people's profiles on this board.

you cant...but

its lostinlodos At g-m- a- i -l ....tag the email title as boardsort ..


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:21 am 

Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:00 pm
Posts: 21
evilrick81 wrote:
ZK77 wrote:
lostinlodos wrote:
Feel free to email me at gmail.


I'm assuming you have contact information on your Forum profile, but I can't figure out how to view other people's profiles on this board.

you cant...but

its lostinlodos At g-m- a- i -l ....tag the email title as boardsort ..


Thank you.


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