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 Post subject: Removing Flatpacks
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2021 2:22 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:14 pm
Posts: 37
So i made a scrap calculator in Excel. It compares fully populated board weights to items i might depopulate (heatsinks, xformers, IC's etc...), if it makes sense to. I recently added the gold tab flatback.

For example, in the case with this board- It weighs 27.3oz and has 5 gold tab flatbacks on it. I did the best i could and calculated how many of these chips weigh 1oz (based on ones i had already taken off and weighed. Not perfect, but you get the idea if the numbers are way different). If this board was graded Peripheral, it would be about $3.84. Without the flatbacks, its about $3.64. Though this particular one would likely be downgraded to Mid after removing the flatbacks so its about $0.51. The price of the chips that were removed add to about $1.61.
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So:
Peripheral populated: $3.84
Peripheral Unpopulated $3.64
Removed Flatbacks: $1.61
Total: $5.25
Seems smarter to remove the flatbacks, in this case.

If downgraded after removal:
Mid: $0.51
Flatbacks: $1.61
Total: $2.12
Not worth it, in this case.

So i guess my question is, Do you normally remove these flatbacks if you find yourself find Yourself in a position where removing them does not downgrade the board? What about about SMD IC's? I've calculated similar situations with SMD IC's that are actually pretty common.


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 Post subject: Re: Removing Flatpacks
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:05 am 
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Location: Low DOS
A) I’ll ignore the whole what boardsort calls flatpack aren’t flatpacks. So nobody reply with any of that. I already know. Let’s move on.


Removing a soldered chip will hurt you 92% of the time. Literally, based on BoardSort’s classes.
Remove a bridge chip or controller from a motherboard and it’s midgrade. There is zero debate on any motherboard other than quad sockets or more. Period, end of discussion.
(If you post a hex or octo socket RISC motherboard and remove the sole controller you can bet I {if you post it} or Chris {if you don’t post it} will override the rule in that case).

1)
Think of it this way: combined the four graders on the forum probably can attest to 60 years of experience in tech. Add my 30-some years…! Add BoardSort’s staff and you have well over a century of knowledge.
Our ability to see a removed chip vs a not installed chip is better than the federal government’s gold requirements. We’re 99.9999999…•% accurate.
I think K and I have a combined error rate of 3 since the forum started. He/she/they only mistook one that I myself posted. :)*
For the first time senders and the ghosts lurking, don’t try being sneaky.

2) for everyone else; if you THINK you could remove this or that the best way to proceed is to post a photo and ask. There are occasions where removing a chip or even two (or…wow…three) won’t hurt a high telco grade,
Or in the case of an SSD full size drive. But anything below CD/DVD or Low Telco is a loss 99% of the time. The consumer and business motherboard classes are 100% set in stone. Remove any soldered IC and it’s midgrade. Period. Workstation and server boards have a small bit of room at 6+ sockets.
For example you can remove a single memory interface from an 8 socket Socket A board. Or one of the two bios/EFI chips from 6+ socket dual bios boards.

No. I don’t remove chips from any board I send in. Since I don’t send in anything under the peripheral classes. I clean strip all midgrade and low boards since I don’t ship them.
Chris gets the ICs since he’s the highest reliable payer I’ve found.

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-- my grades are my own and do not represent an offer from boardsort, nor are they guaranteed. Please keep that in mind.


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 Post subject: Re: Removing Flatpacks
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:56 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:14 pm
Posts: 37
Thank you so much for the info, Lost!

I figured I was likely over thinking it. Would you consider this a peripheral board, as is? I had it ID'd but not by any admins.

A quick question about something you mentioned about not sending certain types in....
I'm likely going to follow suit on that. Shipping from where I am is just too expensive for it to be worth sending in anything lower than peripheral. When you strip the boards down, do you scrap them to a local place for pennies, or just toss them?


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 Post subject: Re: Removing Flatpacks
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:11 pm 
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Posts: 9077
Location: Low DOS
This one's high peripheral.
I sort the parts post removal into different classes and they go to different yards in bulk monthly.
One actually buys any layered boards even if blank. (layered, having a flashing on top or a metal layer in the middle). I get electric shred which at the moment is 2-5 cents depending on grade and amount of weight.

for the rest of the world:
It's missing two chips but looks like they were never installed. the dual controllers run the I/O bank and the missing bank was clearly not installed. So I'll go with this not being modified.

I'll see if I can post a photo of my setup again since I've long forgotten what post I had the old photos in.

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-- my grades are my own and do not represent an offer from boardsort, nor are they guaranteed. Please keep that in mind.


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 Post subject: Re: Removing Flatpacks
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:22 pm 
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Most suggest an air chisel or electric chisel.
That definitely works and quickly: but it’s destructive and you should still remove liquid/oil canister capacitors first.
There’s no fumes in this method so a plus there.

Personally I prefer a heat gun. Each gun is slightly different but generally somewhere between 750-850 is just right to melt solder at about 6” distance.
You can go higher for faster removal but you start melting plastic components. Anything above 900• and you can set the board on fire easily.
If you use a heat gun do so outside or, if inside, with good strong ventilation, preferably with a commercial air purifier. You will make fumes.


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-- my grades are my own and do not represent an offer from boardsort, nor are they guaranteed. Please keep that in mind.
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 Post subject: Re: Removing Flatpacks
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:38 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:14 pm
Posts: 37
I definitely have some work to do if i go this route. But i don't want to waste my Low/Mid boards. Id rather recycle them, even if i make nothing. I cant find anywhere around here that takes them but i'll keep looking. I appreciate the help.


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 Post subject: Re: Removing Flatpacks
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:52 am 
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Ceredox wrote:
…I cant find anywhere around here that takes them but i'll keep looking. I appreciate the help.


If you live near a large city finding a buyer is limited to the effort of making calls. Cozzi is the second largest electrical scrap buyer in the country and has partnered/sourced suppliers in over 60 cities in 49 states. The problem, with eScrap in general, is the rest of the country. As of 2020, pre covid, you could find someone in Cozzi’s supply chain within 60 miles of any location in the continental US, AK, and Canada. Covid has gutted the small scrap yard industry. So it’s harder today than it was just a year ago. Cozzi and O’brian (previously a partnered conglomerate), make up nearly 60% of post-use metal supply chain in the US.
OB sells escrap to boardsort as of 2019. Not t sure what anyone does now. OB has shut down. as has ABC Materials. Chicago, NY, and California all shit down for covid. Finding who buys what, and even who is still in business, is much harder now than just 18 months ago.

Keep at it and you will find someone somewhere. It’s just not likely next door anymore.
I’m now sitting on materials I used to sell weekly or monthly. Just be patient. The industry is recovering and things really ARE getting back to normal. Now it’s just figuring out who survived and when the are open.

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-- my grades are my own and do not represent an offer from boardsort, nor are they guaranteed. Please keep that in mind.


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